Monday, April 16, 2007

Is the Second Amendment killing people?

In the wake of the Virginia Tech shootings, there will be what the National Rifle Association will term as an overblown hysteria about the availability of firearms.

Let's examine the Second Amendment: "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

The militia clause is certainly a bother - does it mean that the Amendment applies to those citizens who are a part of the militia, or who may be a part of the militia? What happens when there is no more militia? Or is the militia clause a generality about people being involved in defense activities, and thereby merely one reason to make the right to arms universal? Well, there is a case pending at the United States Supreme Court where the Court will have the opportunity to address that issue. Whether they will actually address it or duck it is anyone's guess - the Supreme Court doesn't operate in the light of day.

A better question (or at least a simpler one) is to examine what the Founding Fathers meant by "arms." In addition to edged weapons, there were indeed firearms which they certainly considered. The only commonly available weapons in the 18th century were muzzleloading flintlocks. Muzzleloading because the powder and projectile were loaded through the muzzle, the front of the weapon; and flintlock meaning that sparks from a flint ignited the powder to fire the weapon. (There were a couple of designs for breach-loading weapons, but they didn't catch on until the end of the American Civil War.) By their nature, 18th century weapons were bulky and single-shot. Muzzleloaders require reloading for each shot. They were bulky because the metals of the time needed to be thick to safely contain the explosion, and only wood was available for the stocks. The time to reload was significant. A musket, which had a smooth bore, took around 20 seconds for a skilled user to reload. A rifle, because of its grooved barrel, required about 30 seconds. The advent of weapons holding more than one charge was significant. Revolving pistols were introduced in the 1830's. Repeating rifles were invented in the late 1850's. A few of the first practical repeating rifles, the Henry Rifle, was used sparingly by the Union in the American Civil War. Southern soldiers who were on the receiving end of the rapid fire referred to that "damned Yankee gun you load on Sunday and still is shooting on Thursday." It is fair to conclude that had the Union Army armourers promoted the mass production and use of Henrys, the war would have been much shorter. (Oddly, perhaps that would have resulted in fewer overall casualties.)

Had the VT gunman gone on campus with the sort of weapon contemplated by the writers of the Second Amendment, he would have killed about 2 people, one in each building. Presumably, he would have been pretty vulnerable to the people present as he took 20 - 30 seconds to reload. The news does not yet describe the weapons, but it seems most probable that what he used were semi-automatic and had reasonably large magazines. As of now, the news is reporting 30 killed and 26 wounded, which suggests an awful lot of ammunition expended. In other words, they were not contemplated by the Founders. Should we then pay obeisance to an intent of the Founders that wasn't really there? What would the writers of the Bill of Rights say about a 56 victim shooting spree by one shooter?

The NRA is right. We should not meet this tragedy with hysteria. But we should give it honest thought.

R

15 comments:

Anonymous said...

Roger, I don't own a gun, but I like having the right to do so if I wish to. I'm biased in that my dad is a lifer in the NRA and the MD state gun association and I grew up going to events with him. He is also a Libertarian, and I have several of those leanings, but not all.

I think a good thing to do is to wait and see if the person in question obtained the guns legally or not. I feel this is important because I don't know anyone in real life who legally owns a gun who uses it for more than hunting or target practice. then again, most people do not set out to kill massive amounts of people.

The gun crimes in my city (approx 80 this year so far) are caused by 99.9% illegal firearms. I fail to see the logic of limiting the rights of good citizens with the hopes of preventing the unpreventable.

As I said, I like knowing that if I wanted to get a gun, I can. I feel this is an important right, and although I don't agree with all the NRA bullcrap (I am not a member), I am happy that they exist and seek to maintain gun rights.

I think you have an excellent point about type of firearm and what the founders meant. But I have two points here:

1. It's a living document, and the meanings need to change to meet our needs today. Is it fair to hold part of hte country hostage with someone's guess on what a bunch of old dead white dudes might have wanted once upon a time?
Some may say that strict gun control is needed, while others disagree, i don't know if "original intent" versus modern technology and "what would the founders do" is a crack-jack solution.
2. The founders rarely agreed on anything, so which of the founders are you talking about? They were as politically dynamic and opinionated and in some ways, as fake, as politicians are today. We often see the founders as perfect souls who weren't mere men that lived. We read their supposed intents as supreme law, as if they're the philosopher kings of Plato.

All that aside, people are crazy and i don't think one law over another will give us true security, just the illusion of it. However, I don't know if owning a firearm is any better a "security" measure either. There's probably no right answer. Hindsight is 20-20.

Jilly

Roger said...

Good points, Jilly. This is exactly the type of dialogue that I think we need.

R

Clank Napper said...

I am petrified of guns. I am more terrified that somebody will shoot my daughter.

I wish these people would take up crib or knitting or boxing instead.

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Anonymous said...

Roger, I also think it's a shame that the injuries and deaths of these people will be used to further political agendas of people who couldn't care less about the victims or their families. I don't think this is a political issue at all, granted i did not lose someone yesterday from gun violence. I however, did lose a sibling several years ago due to gun violence in Baltimore, and I still feel the way I do.

Clank, I'm scared of someone shooting me or a loved one too, i live in a good part of a bad city. So many people have guns who have no business owning one, and who are not educated in the proper care and storage of a firearm. This is legal and illegal owners alike. I think too many people are not responsible with deadly things like guns, knives, cars etc.

Jilly

longhair75 said...

There is a debate raging in the BBQ pit at the straightdope message board between gun control advocates blaming the ability this guy had to aquire a gun, and second ammendment advocates saying that it would have been better if all the students were carrying guns with which to defend themselves. There are absurdities on each side of this debate.

Anonymous said...

pete, VA is a conceal carry state, so if they had wanted to have guns and no one else to know, they could have. i think the issue is moot as coulda-woulda's won't fix anything.
Jilly

Clank Napper said...

Jilly...I live in a quiet town in a quiet part of the world, and I'm still scared.

Clank Napper said...

I have been to Wikipedia (What did I use before this?!) to read up on your ammendments.

I have no idea why I haven't read up on this before, and adore all the history that comes with them....like the third ammendment, stopping soldiers taking over your house!


Do Americans know all this stuff by heart?

Anonymous said...

Va may have a carry concealed law, but VA Tech prohibited weapons on their campus (most campuses do). The logic of the if the students could bring weapons on campus camp seems very silly to me. It assumes a) the students would have been thinking straight and b) would never have missed the shooter and c) were in the vicinity. Somehow I would imagine that all three of those assumptions would have been wrong. The same camp also argues that knowing others would have fired back would have prevented this--this boy (and that's probably the appropriate word) was mentally ill...knowing that would have done nothing.

I'm not for banning all guns, but I am certainly pro controlling gun. This boy was legally declared insane less than 2 years ago, and when he legally purchased his gun--there was nothing more than a cursory background check? I imagine a more thorough check might have caught that insanity thing, so he could have been refused...

longhair75 said...

Nebraska became a concealed carry state in the last election. Gun violence is up since this happened. The two facts are not connected. The shootings that happened last month would have happened whether or not the concealed carry law passed. Jilly is right that most gun crimes are caused by illegal firearms. To carry this further, the overwhelming majority of shootings that occur in my city are gang/drug related.

An incident such as this can occur anywhere, and there is no easy answer to preventing them. I just think that everyone packing heat would cause more problems that it would solve.

For the record: I am a gun owner, and I do have one of the dreaded 9mm semiautomatic handguns that are being lamblasted in the media.

Waltzing Matilda said...

Okay, with the exception of mass-murdering psychos how many college students would be inclined to pack for their 9:00 am class? That's silly.

Roger, the militia part doesn't bother me because a militia can't form WITHOUT arms. It's not like a group of people can go petition federal court to become a militia and obtain arms that way. In the Revolution militias were rising up to fight against their own governments. I believe The Founding Fathers were acknowledging that the people of the United States could, in the future, feel the need to rise up against their own government again in the future.

I've been saying it in my blog, and now I'll say it here, IMHO the guns aren't the problem. I can go to Wal-Mart and buy the fixins' of a real nifty bomb, get instructions off the net, and take out half of Harrisonburg if I'm so inclined. The two biggest mass murders in US History (OK City and 911) didn't involve guns at all.

Canada has more guns per capita then we do, yet they haven't got the problems we do. How come? I think it's because they have more of a social conscience toward one another. In America it's all about Me! Me! Me! Me! We as a society don't seem to give a shit if our neighbors don't have proper medical care, food to eat, heating oil, or even a roof over their heads, etc as long as we are warm and fed. When you have that kind of attitude toward your fellow human being, aren't you saying that you don't care if they live or die? Is it really that big of a leap to, "That person is annoying me, so I'm going to kill them?"

Plus, having heard parts of the Cho's manifesto, it is clear that in his sick mind he thought he would somehow be a hero for doing this. I mean, I can't imagine where he would have gotten that idea. It's not like Hollywood puts out movies that promote that idea or anything. (end sarcasm)

Like I said, the gun was the very least of the problem in this situation. It is a symptom of a disease that is completely overwhelming if you think about it.

Roger said...

Brother Pete, I vastly prefer the .45 ACP round. I'm old-fashioned that way.

Now if we could just have a national dialogue as rational as this one here.

R

Anonymous said...

Hah! In the US we're much too egotistical to be rational.

Anonymous said...

We're too afraid to be rational.